Why John Cage should never have been taken seriously as a composer

[supergee]

If you develop an ear for sounds that are musical it is like developing an ego. You begin to refuse sounds that are not musical and that way cut yourself off from a good deal of experience.

If you develop a preference for food that tastes good, it is like developing an ego. You begin to refuse inedible food and that way cut yourself off from a good deal of experience. Hire me as a chef.

Comments

[bibliofile]

I see what you mean! But what was the context? (I haven't read any of Cage's writing, not in significant quantities anyway.) Because I think you could make the argument that cultural context matters: what is food to some people isn't to others. Must music always be tuneful in the western concept of melody etc.? Must art always be beautiful -- and whose standard(s) of beauty?

I mean, those are some of the eternal questions, aren't they. (No idea if Cage was coming from there, though.)

[bibliofile]

Examples: insects as food. Abstract expressionism as visual art.

[supergee]

The context was Quote of the Day. It comes back every few months and always annoys me. I don't think he's saying that more may be musical than you think; I have no problem with that. I interpret him as saying that drawing any music/unmusic distinction is unenlightened.

[marahmarie]

See, abstract expressionism is art to me. Art that's too perhaps at all realistic is just photorealism and to my mind, that's not art.

But someone could make the same argument about food, I guess, something like: "But insects are food to me. Anything that looks or tastes like animal flesh is just cruel, and to my mind, that's not food."

Neither opinion/stance/take/whatever you want to call it is wrong, not morally, ethically, or otherwise.

(With the caveat that moral arguments can always be made against killing any living creature in order to eat, but then other arguments can be made that everything we eat lives so we should all, in fact, stop eating to show our true enlightenment).

[marahmarie]

But if that's what he's saying, then he's right (and he's also saying more is musical than you might think). Jackhammers can sound musical given the right context. Almost anything can.

Also, a quick check through his quotes shows him as pretty open-minded. I kind of like the way he thinks so I have to thank you for getting annoyed (because I never heard of him before this). :)

[bibliofile]

I'd agree with Cage, too, as "music" is more a cultural evaluation than anything else.

Maybe instead of "food," "cuisine" might work as a better analogy? Assignging cultural value to a noise (or lack thereof) is not quite the same as determining whether something is merely edible.

[marahmarie]

But there's a huge difference between "merely edible" and "tastes exquisite" that is not only subjective, quite literally, to your taste, but has stronger class biases built into it than the mere consumption of music, which, if you tune and time your jackhammers just right, can please across the economic and social strata without offending on any sort of inherent cultural level (while bologna for the 7th day in a row to someone who's become accustomed to a more high-end and varied diet can understandably grate on more levels than merely how it tastes). So there's a lot more to this discussion than the mere tuning out of unpleasant noise or food - it becomes about built-in bias and those biases developed over time and through environment and/or deliberate self-exposure, as well. Which is why I really like the way he thinks. :)