You mean cleanliness isn't next to godliness?

[supergee]

Never assume you're being cynical enough. Yesterday, I posted about Republicans rushing to embrace antivax nonsense, and I may have thought that was as bad as it could get. Then Sen. Thom Tillis said that businesses shouldn't have to force employees to wash their hands after using the toilet. Hey, germ theory isn't in the Bible, so it can't be that important.

Comments

[onyxlynx]

Typhoid Mary was so last century, dahling.

(And this is but one reason I would not vote to elect a conservative or a libertarian, small or large l, to any post other than dog-catcher. Excuse me. Animal control officer.)

Why does everything have to be about politics? Can't anyone ever just be right?

[marahmarie]

There have been a lot of studies over the last few years saying that hand-washing is not all that effective at removing and/or killing germs on hands (in studies, sometimes they're dirtier after you wash them then they were before) and I've seen it said that anti-bacterial soap in particular has worse effects on human health than it does on most of the bad stuff you're trying to wash off. So I have to say I'll agree with the Senator... *hands over Dem voter reg card*. Ideological land grabs on either side are not useful if they mean refusing to explore or else flat-out ignoring the facts. Which no one, apparently, can agree on.

Re: Why does everything have to be about politics? Can't anyone ever just be right?

[johnpalmer]

I've never heard any study that showed washing hands might have left them germier.

A good handwashing should remove something like 95-99% of the icky stuff on one's hands. There are ways to ruin it, of course - if you don't use clean drying material (drying hands on clothing), or if you don't have clean water with which to rinse (dirty soap is okay - but clean rinse water is mandatory). Antibacterial soap doesn't tend to help because it's not in contact long enough to do anything with the remaining 1-5% of bacteria. It helps a surgical scrub, because that takes actual time.

Washing hands after using the toilet (all jokes about "we don't pee on our fingers" *included*, because it's not about the urine) is especially important because it's frightfully easy for certain microbes to migrate and while there's little danger to you (if it came out of your butt, your body's almost certainly already used to it) it can be dangerous to others - and it can include nasties like polio which requires feces-to-food-chain transmission, if what I heard is correct.

Washing one's hands certainly won't *kill* germs. That's not the point. But a good handwashing removes them. I'd need a lot more evidence to the contrary than someone on the internet saying "there have been a lot of studies...".

Re: Why does everything have to be about politics? Can't anyone ever just be right?

[marahmarie]

*cough* Read this: http://marahmarie.dreamwidth.org/228647.html *cough*

Disclaimer: I do not actually throw my voter reg card at people, and wouldn't even if given the right opportunity, but this sort of raised my hackles enough to tempt me to.

I know I linked to nothing when I wrote this reply because I was in a hurry to, you know, write this reply, but the post I wrote after reading supergee's contains two links to studies along with my reasoning for why the finer points of handwashing (or not!) is an important topic that our country needs to discuss right about now.

Re: Why does everything have to be about politics? Can't anyone ever just be right?

[onyxlynx]

Hi! No need to throw cards! ;-) I am just being politically irritated these days with people who as far as I can tell want me (and mine) dead.

I spent some time 20 years ago in the infection control division of a teaching hospital; I worked on the database. There was actually a tutorial in handwashing. Most people don't do it properly.

Re: Why does everything have to be about politics? Can't anyone ever just be right?

[marahmarie]

Are you supergee? Because my comment was addressed to him, not to you. And as he is not engaging on it I'd take it he's not interested in doing so, which is fine by me. I wrote my own post about it in response (warning: I throw cards in it - also, I think he's seen the post since he commented on another one I published around the same time) and I'm pretty settled with the whole thing. I just don't like politics being used to discuss normal topics that don't require political leanings being mentioned in order to discuss (ie. - and not that anyone said this, but to wit: "Those darn Republicans now they want it to not be a law for restaurant workers to wash their hands"). Considering it's not done right in this country, anyway (that is, the practice of handwashing - including in most public places that we use the wrong soap!) I must agree with the Senator.

If that means it's time to rip up my Democratic voter reg card because everyone is going to keep this convo flowing along strictly political lines then I would be glad to. I can't believe there are times that Dems come off sounding like such extremists over something that only requires an intelligent conversation and not a partisan war to resolve, that I would be only too glad to disown my membership.

Re: Why does everything have to be about politics? Can't anyone ever just be right?

[onyxlynx]

Ah. Sorry. I plead pre-existing annoyance and stealth hobbyhorse. I totally agree many people don't do hand washing correctly (did I mention the tutorial?).

Re: Why does everything have to be about politics? Can't anyone ever just be right?

[marahmarie]

Stealth hobbyhorse, huh? Are you OK?

I'm still wondering why we're having this conversation, but since it's all about you, do go on.